[Compcomm] [Fwd: Re: The Next Step]

Tue Apr 24 08:12:29 EDT 2007

i can't wait till someone somehow manages to argue against that (as always
happens).....

to me, that sounds like a decent reason :D

btw, how much does vbulletin cost ??

On 4/24/07, Matthew Swaringen <xanas3712 at matrixcentral.net> wrote:
>
> Since we are back on the argument about vbulletin again I found the
> argument made for it by will he was referring to.  I didn't see any
> other extensive argumentation besides the back and forths over this one.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, 2007-04-18 at 04:26 +0200, RYX wrote:
> > What is the exact reason why we don't use phpBB3? It is free and it is
> > open-source ... I tried it and I can't see a reason for not using it. I
> > find it quite ironic to use commercial software for an open-source
> > project's site and have no good feeling about that ... it's kind of
> > immoral.
>
> Morality is not, and should not, be a factor in the equation for two
> reasons:
>
> 1) Morality is _very, very_ subjective (by nature) and no person's
> morality is the same as another's. Deciding forum software based upon
> morality will lead to nothing more than disagreements: as such the forum
> software should be decided by software's merit.
>
> 2) There is nothing immoral or amoral with proprietary software. There
> are companies that may be immoral with their software, yes, but that is
> as a result of the company's policies.
>
> When it comes to code quality, features, expandability, maintenance,
> upkeep, security, and performance, vBulletin is the simply the best
> software available.
>
> This of course brings into play the whole argument that "Open Source is
> actively developed, so security must not be an issue, right?" Well, no.
> While it's good in theory, and if development is constant, the PHPBB3
> development is not nearly as active as other projects (like Firefox for
> example) who can make sure a patch for a security flaw is out and being
> actively distributed within say 24 hours of finding the flaw. As far as
> security goes, vBulletin has in impeccable record of not only being more
> secure to begin with, but also releasing patches ASAP.
>
> The biggest downfall of PHPBB is not even that, however. The biggest
> flaw, is without a doubt, the pure inability to maintain and keep PHPBB
> up-to-date and secure without hours upon hours of manual hacking on the
> source code. This is a wasted effort.
>
> vBulletin uses a system called Products and Plugins. What these are, in
> lay-men terms, are a series of methods by which scripts/plugins can use
> hooks to inject or modify code that renders the page without manually
> editing the source. What this achieves is not only a lot of saved effort
> in expanding the features of the forum, but also make maintainability an
> easy task.
>
> When it comes to vBulletin upgrades, you won't ever need to hack the
> source. The most difficult it becomes is possibly doing a few minor
> patching to the theme and, if needed, any upgrades to installed plugins
> or products. One can fully upgrade their vBulletin installation in 20
> minutes handily.
>
> However, with PHPBB, you will be hand-editing the source no matter what.
> You either take the current source and just manually apply the diff for
> every file - most of the time without any exterior aid because if you've
> applied any hack to the code, chances are the changes won't be _exactly_
> correct. The other route, is to install the new version, and then hope
> that you can reapply all your old hacks again. As the forum grows, the
> complications in upgrading just get worse and worse and more
> time-consuming.
>
> In regards to features, vBulletin offers much that PHPBB cannot even
> attempt to match. AJAX Quick Reply, Multi-Quote, AJAX thread/post
> editing, reported posts, built-in warnings & infractions system,
> plugins, products, users viewing the thread, similar threads, etc etc.
> The list literally goes on and on. These features all combine to make a
> better user experience.
>
> But above all else, common sense enters the scene. Many corporations and
> extremely large websites (see: Something Awful and MTGSalvation and
> Ubuntu Forums) use vBulletin rather than PHPBB or other pay-for
> alternatives. There's a _reason_ for this. vBulletin simply is the best
> software for any large, growing community. It's a matter of nothing more
> than "you get what you pay for".
>
>         Aside: The first person to mention Microsoft is getting flamed.
>                The reason? It's not applicable here. Microsoft has
>                essentially had a monopoly for a long while. In contrast,
>                the forum software business has plenty of competition and
>                has for a long while.
>
>
> So what justifies all this added stuff? The community.
>
> The Beryl forum was one of the most-quickly-growing forums on the net.
> It achieved 30,000+ posts in... 6 months? Mind, it's not a Something
> Awful-level of posting, but it's far more than many forums even see in
> four times that amount of time.
>
> The Compiz community was fairly active and steadily growing to begin
> with. Now we've literally just poured the Beryl community in with the
> mix. This expansion is rapid and _will_ continue. As the merge finishes
> and development goes into full swing, and as more distributions include
> Compiz by default, the Compiz forum stands to continue this trend of
> expanding generally rapidly.
>
> With this trend being nothing more than inevitable, we need a software
> that is:
>
> 1) Maintainable
> 2) Expandable
> 3) Secure
>
> vBulletin sufficiently provides all three and more. PHPBB3 simply does
> not and will not be able to for what appears to be a long time. PHPBB is
> a good project, make no mistake. However, it is suited to small forums
> that see little to moderate activity. It is not suited in the least to a
> growing community.
>
> The only reasonable choice here _is_ vBulletin.
>
> > Isn't it more open-source-like to help improving pphBB and support the
> > phpBB-project - instead of supporting some commercial company?? If
> > everyone would think like that, there would be no open-source at all ...
>
> Unless our community is filled with about 30 PHP and SQL experts who can
> code on PHPBB3 full-time for the next 90 days, there is no way that
> PHPBB3 could possibly support the current and future needs of the
> community. ;)
>
>
> Just as a matter of note, I've actively used PHPBB2, PHPBB3, vBulletin,
> IPB, MyBB, and other forum softwares, and currently am the maintainer of
> two separate forums using vBulletin.
>
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