[Compcomm] [Fwd: Re: The Next Step]

Tue Apr 24 08:47:53 EDT 2007

Mike, gold meaning finished, released, gold release. Not talking about
money when I said gold.

On 4/24/07, nesl247 <nesl247 at beryl-project.org> wrote:
> Sam, did you even read my post at all? No where did I say because it's
> free, I just mentioned the price because someone asked how much the
> license was.\
>
> And I listed all the reasons phpBB is better, or arguments against
> Will's arguments as to why vB is better.
>
> And yes, some users do care what forum software is used. Maybe if you
> took the time out to go and read, you'd have noticed that by now.
>
> On 4/24/07, Sam Spilsbury <smspillaz at gmail.com> wrote:
> > OK. Thats it.
> >
> > If someone wants to PAY for vBulliten then LET THEM! Dont just go "Oh wah
> > wah, vB not OSS, were OSS wah wah vb costs money wah wah wah weve always
> > used phpBB wah wah wah."
> >
> > I'm not really too sure what phpBB's advantages are here but if someone
> > wants to pay for vB then let them. its obvious that vB is 100x better than
> > phpBB (Subjective statement, do not take seriously). Honestly the users DONT
> > CARE what forum software we use. OSS is good but OSS zealots are BAD!!!!
> > >:(. Honestly, please dont argue the "You can modify the source to make it
> > teh betaz!!!!!!!" because the phpBB source is complicated and NOBODY here
> > knows how to hack it.
> >
> > If someone wants to use and pay for vB then LET THEM!
> >
> > Btw vBulletin costs about $160 US which is about AUD$210 (Hi delfick ;-) )
> >
> > On 4/24/07, Stephen Moore <delfick755 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > i can't wait till someone somehow manages to argue against that (as always
> > happens).....
> > >
> > > to me, that sounds like a decent reason :D
> > >
> > > btw, how much does vbulletin cost ??
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 4/24/07, Matthew Swaringen <xanas3712 at matrixcentral.net> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Since we are back on the argument about vbulletin again I found the
> > > > argument made for it by will he was referring to.  I didn't see any
> > > > other extensive argumentation besides the back and forths over this one.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, 2007-04-18 at 04:26 +0200, RYX wrote:
> > > > > What is the exact reason why we don't use phpBB3? It is free and it is
> > > > > open-source ... I tried it and I can't see a reason for not using it.
> > I
> > > > > find it quite ironic to use commercial software for an open-source
> > > > > project's site and have no good feeling about that ... it's kind of
> > > > > immoral.
> > > >
> > > > Morality is not, and should not, be a factor in the equation for two
> > > > reasons:
> > > >
> > > > 1) Morality is _very, very_ subjective (by nature) and no person's
> > > > morality is the same as another's. Deciding forum software based upon
> > > > morality will lead to nothing more than disagreements: as such the forum
> > > > software should be decided by software's merit.
> > > >
> > > > 2) There is nothing immoral or amoral with proprietary software. There
> > > > are companies that may be immoral with their software, yes, but that is
> > > > as a result of the company's policies.
> > > >
> > > > When it comes to code quality, features, expandability, maintenance,
> > > > upkeep, security, and performance, vBulletin is the simply the best
> > > > software available.
> > > >
> > > > This of course brings into play the whole argument that "Open Source is
> > > > actively developed, so security must not be an issue, right?" Well, no.
> > > > While it's good in theory, and if development is constant, the PHPBB3
> > > > development is not nearly as active as other projects (like Firefox for
> > > > example) who can make sure a patch for a security flaw is out and being
> > > > actively distributed within say 24 hours of finding the flaw. As far as
> > > > security goes, vBulletin has in impeccable record of not only being more
> > > > secure to begin with, but also releasing patches ASAP.
> > > >
> > > > The biggest downfall of PHPBB is not even that, however. The biggest
> > > > flaw, is without a doubt, the pure inability to maintain and keep PHPBB
> > > > up-to-date and secure without hours upon hours of manual hacking on the
> > > > source code. This is a wasted effort.
> > > >
> > > > vBulletin uses a system called Products and Plugins. What these are, in
> > > > lay-men terms, are a series of methods by which scripts/plugins can use
> > > > hooks to inject or modify code that renders the page without manually
> > > > editing the source. What this achieves is not only a lot of saved effort
> > > > in expanding the features of the forum, but also make maintainability an
> > > > easy task.
> > > >
> > > > When it comes to vBulletin upgrades, you won't ever need to hack the
> > > > source. The most difficult it becomes is possibly doing a few minor
> > > > patching to the theme and, if needed, any upgrades to installed plugins
> > > > or products. One can fully upgrade their vBulletin installation in 20
> > > > minutes handily.
> > > >
> > > > However, with PHPBB, you will be hand-editing the source no matter what.
> > > > You either take the current source and just manually apply the diff for
> > > > every file - most of the time without any exterior aid because if you've
> > > > applied any hack to the code, chances are the changes won't be _exactly_
> > > > correct. The other route, is to install the new version, and then hope
> > > > that you can reapply all your old hacks again. As the forum grows, the
> > > > complications in upgrading just get worse and worse and more
> > > > time-consuming.
> > > >
> > > > In regards to features, vBulletin offers much that PHPBB cannot even
> > > > attempt to match. AJAX Quick Reply, Multi-Quote, AJAX thread/post
> > > > editing, reported posts, built-in warnings & infractions system,
> > > > plugins, products, users viewing the thread, similar threads, etc etc.
> > > > The list literally goes on and on. These features all combine to make a
> > > > better user experience.
> > > >
> > > > But above all else, common sense enters the scene. Many corporations and
> > > > extremely large websites (see: Something Awful and MTGSalvation and
> > > > Ubuntu Forums) use vBulletin rather than PHPBB or other pay-for
> > > > alternatives. There's a _reason_ for this. vBulletin simply is the best
> > > > software for any large, growing community. It's a matter of nothing more
> > > > than "you get what you pay for".
> > > >
> > > >         Aside: The first person to mention Microsoft is getting flamed.
> > > >                The reason? It's not applicable here. Microsoft has
> > > >                essentially had a monopoly for a long while. In contrast,
> > > >                the forum software business has plenty of competition and
> > > >                has for a long while.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > So what justifies all this added stuff? The community.
> > > >
> > > > The Beryl forum was one of the most-quickly-growing forums on the net.
> > > > It achieved 30,000+ posts in... 6 months? Mind, it's not a Something
> > > > Awful-level of posting, but it's far more than many forums even see in
> > > > four times that amount of time.
> > > >
> > > > The Compiz community was fairly active and steadily growing to begin
> > > > with. Now we've literally just poured the Beryl community in with the
> > > > mix. This expansion is rapid and _will_ continue. As the merge finishes
> > > > and development goes into full swing, and as more distributions include
> > > > Compiz by default, the Compiz forum stands to continue this trend of
> > > > expanding generally rapidly.
> > > >
> > > > With this trend being nothing more than inevitable, we need a software
> > > > that is:
> > > >
> > > > 1) Maintainable
> > > > 2) Expandable
> > > > 3) Secure
> > > >
> > > > vBulletin sufficiently provides all three and more. PHPBB3 simply does
> > > > not and will not be able to for what appears to be a long time. PHPBB is
> > > > a good project, make no mistake. However, it is suited to small forums
> > > > that see little to moderate activity. It is not suited in the least to a
> > > > growing community.
> > > >
> > > > The only reasonable choice here _is_ vBulletin.
> > > >
> > > > > Isn't it more open-source-like to help improving pphBB and support the
> > > > > phpBB-project - instead of supporting some commercial company?? If
> > > > > everyone would think like that, there would be no open-source at all
> > ...
> > > >
> > > > Unless our community is filled with about 30 PHP and SQL experts who can
> > > > code on PHPBB3 full-time for the next 90 days, there is no way that
> > > > PHPBB3 could possibly support the current and future needs of the
> > > > community. ;)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Just as a matter of note, I've actively used PHPBB2, PHPBB3, vBulletin,
> > > > IPB, MyBB, and other forum softwares, and currently am the maintainer of
> > > > two separate forums using vBulletin.
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > >
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>
> --
> Alex Heck - nesl247
>

-- 
Alex Heck - nesl247