[Compcomm] Name poll

[Kristian Lyngstøl]

On 6/10/07, RYX <ryx at ryxperience.com> wrote:
> Am Montag, den 04.06.2007, 20:56 +0200 schrieb Kristian Lyngstøl:
> > On 6/4/07, Kristian Lyngstøl <kristian at bohemians.org> wrote:
> > > Roico; I know you're not trying to make things hard. I know you want
> > > the same thing as we do. Why don't you let everyone else see that side
> > > too?
> >
> > That's Rico, not roico, sorry about that :)
> >
> Sorry, but I doubt I want the same thing as you (Plural here). I wanted
> to take the professionality and stability of compiz and combine them
> with the talented effect-/plugins-coders to make compiz a better
> project. I originally shared the idea to take it one step further and
> make a new project from it - but I planned to do it once things are
> ready (somewhen in early 2008), not as soon as possible.

We want the same thing in that we want a good composite environment.

Some of us are less "professional" than others, but we haven't had a
great deal of examples of professional behavior up to this point.

> Kristian says "I know you want the same thing as we do", but from what I
> can see everyone wants what he personally favors. There is no sane
> discussion and/or professional talk about anything not related to coding
> (and, only to mention, being rude and harsh doesn't automatically make
> you unprofessional and/or wrong). Even the code-related things are still
> discussed and decided by a handful of people (and I bet it's still done
> on IRC) who can't really be called "professional" - they are talented,
> but that's not everything. Some questions:
>
> Where is the discussion about the new settings-system being held? Why is
> there no draft describing it? Why is everything just _done_ (and done
> again and again ...) and not _thought through_???

I agree that there are too many thing being concluded out side of this
list. But as it is, there has never been a tradition for properly
discussing things on a ml before it is done either in compiz or beryl,
this is something we have to work on.

A start is to point out what you are unhappy with in the things that
are being done, but most importantly: specific and realistic ideas of
ways to improve. Simply saying "this was not discussed and so it is
bad!" or "I don't like this, it's total crap!" does not help, it will
only make things worse.

I suggest you make a post on ONE technical issue you are not happy
with, and a specific suggestion on how we should improve it. Remember
here that you have to convince the people doing the actual work that
it is right, so we all have to make sure we're not disagreeing out of
spite.

I say one issue, to keep it limited in the start. I say everyone
should do that, that way, we'll quickly spot things people are unhappy
with.

> Also, why are programmers deciding about things they have no idea of?
> Everything not code-related is a total mess. I can only repeat: bad
> style is bad style - no matter if in coding, webdesign, logo-design or
> project-identity (where the name is a very big part of). Danny, this is
> a point we agreed in so maybe we can all discuss this in a more serious
> manner? We have to take care that we don't sacrifice the good style we
> tried to introduce to compiz since beginning of this year.

Because no-one else is stepping up. You are in a perfect position to
get involved here, you obviously feel strongly about this, and you
have the technical skills to pull this off. Again, I suggest you're
more specific and don't make a huge list. Discuss one point at a time.

> Concerning the "coral" name, which now seems to be chosen: To inform all
> Non-Europeans out there - "Coral" is a washing powder you put in the
> washing-machine, they pretend it cares for making your colors "live"
> longer (well, according to their commercial which I know since 28 years)
> - maybe you get the irony in naming a project like this. Also
> "Corel" (which sounds exactly the same if spoken by a non-native english
> speaker) is one of the leading companies on the graphics-app market - I
> assume you all knew that. That's another reason why I proposed to
> disallow all the combo-names (and names derived from them).

I am not happy with the election process either, but I feel we have
gone too long without a name. We need one, and fast. I also suspect I
am not the only one feeling this.

However, I do think it is serious this lack of support that the poll is getting.

I'll start a separate thread for this to see if we can't clear it up.

> Why can't you just listen to what I (or other "complainers") say - just
> one single time? No, instead all you try to do is either ignoring my
> points or trying to convince me that I am wrong - just like back then
> with beryl (btw, all we told the "officials" back then became true ...).
> Even if I don't put it into nice words I may be right from time to time.

We want to listen, but it's not always that easy. There are many of
us, and we don't always keep track of everything. I can assure you
that you are not being ignore, but you are not coming through clearly
either.

Whether it is your intent or not, much of what you post come off as
rambeling because you have very few good suggestions. Dropping
everything we're doing is not going to happen, neither is development
going to stop, and we're not going to wait for months to select a
name. We have to act fast, but I agree with you that it should still
be done properly, with most parties interest in mind. Including yours
and Mike's.

> I still wonder why I waste my time and try to open your eyes. Me
> shutting up is so much easier and so much more comfortable for all of
> us, I know. But maybe this is a proof that I am still interested in it -
> in opposition to many others.

And that's good. Maybe I'm alone here, but I appreciate your input. I
just don't think you'll achieve much with this method. That's why I
wish for more specific suggestions. We are doing many many things, so
it's easier to start in one end if you disagree with many, maybe even
the majority of these things.

I urge you to not reply to this thread with specific details. Start
(a) new thread(s) for each issue. Be concise and precise, and you will
be heard, and respected.

I know a lot of people have given up on you, but I haven't. Please
don't give up on us either, Rico. I want a MERGED project, not a Beryl
project version 2.

-- 
Regards,
Kristian