[Compcomm] Forum Decision

[Kristian Lyngstøl]

On 5/11/07, Mike Dransfield <mike at blueroot.co.uk> wrote:
> Kristian Lyngstøl wrote:
> > On 5/11/07, Mike Dransfield <mike at blueroot.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >> Ive already seen people upset with changes being made to
> >> their plugins/code without their knowledge or approval.
> >>
> >
> > The fact that I was upset about an update was never related to Danny's
> > write access to the project. Because the code was available, he could
> > port my plugins. If my work wasn't public, he couldn't know wether he
> > was working on the most recent version or not. And it is very likely
> > that he wouldn't have ported it at all. Sure, we disagree, but that's
> > what happen when multiple people cooperate.
> >
>
> I was not talking about you

Then state your sources or shut up.

In fact, forget that first part.

> > Closed door development, which is what you are advocating, does not
> > really make sense in a free software project.
> >
>
> Please can we stop with the closed * accusations?  Its what got us here
> in the first place.

Why?

If it's what got us here in the first place, maybe we should sort out
the issue instead of ignore it.

> > Packing up a git repo and requiring your fellow devs to manually
> > download this every time you make an update is just kicking your
> > contributors in the nuts. I know I would never put out with bullshit
> > stuff like that, when it takes about half a moment to set up a public
> > git repo for everyone to use. And I'm not even talking about write
> > access.
> >
>
> Its easy to set one up, but its hard to maintain one.

Hard to maintain? Is that a joke?

> You obviously do not use git much.  There is no reason to have an
> upto date tree before preparing a patch, it can be months old and it
> will still apply.

And you have obviously not used git much if you still think that's the case.

Also, you have obviously not used git much if you think commitng
requires pushing.

Maybe think about what you are saying and who you are talking to
before you actually hit the "send" button mate. Just a friendly tip.

> > You seem very afraid to reveal to others that you, like everyone else,
> > fucks up their own code from time to time. You also seem to think not
> > letting people see this will make the situation better.
> >
>
> Type git-log and you will see everything.  Feel free to criticize whatever
> you like.

People don't look at the log unless they have to. By doing code dumps,
you are hiding how you work. Ragardless of wether you make the log
public afterwards.

> Even if it was held in a public repository then I would still develop
> 'behind
> closed doors' as you say and then only push to the public repo when I was
> happy.  It is the same as pushing up the tarball, nobody would see any
> different code.  Even developers would not see anything different because
> at any one time there will be unknown local changes anyway.
>
> Its just basic quality control to make my own life easier.

It is not the same.

By using a public repo, I wouldn't have to download a retarded tar
ball of a git repo.

> > All I can say, is that you seem very insecure about your own work.
> > You've been building this huge self image on these mailinglists by
> > bashing everyone and everything around you, and it seems to me you're
> > terrified to let anyone see that you too make mistakes.
> >
>
> There is lots of my code available publicly, people are free to
> criticize whatever they like.

This is about how you work.

Have you found a new "let everyone except beryl people use my code"
license by the way?

If you seriously think I am going to take ANYTHING coming from you
regarding open and free work serious after that whole mess, think
again buddy.

Sure I'm digging up the past, but your retarded rantings are getting
old, and I'm not about to discuss this any further with you until you
grow up.

> > The support requests you speak of is a non-issue, too. It's just
> > stretching for excuses to not let people activly participate in the
> > development.
> >
>
> Right... And everyone willing to help please form a line...

People aren't going to help you when we have to use extra time to
adjust to your personal prefference. There is a common way of
communicating for a reason. By deviating from that, you are alienating
potential contributors.

Short story: Nobody is going to give a damn about your work if you
continue to ignore the common development practices the rest of us
use.

> Nobody?  Oh well... Ill put off the rush to get it into a public repo.
> The code is there if you want to have a look without committing
> anything yet.  Once you decide you want to help then let me know
> what you are planing and I will be as helpful as I can, to avoid
> timewasting.

That's not how things work.

People don't ask for your permission to help you, they look at
something, tinker with it. Sometimes the result is nothing at all,
other times it results in a patch. But you obviosuly don't seem to
understand that people don't actually want to have a discussion with
you before they start helping you.

> RYX has shown an interest but its all adding functions so I have
> not pressed for git format.  If there were major changes I would
> insist on a git formatted patch (you know - the same type you send
> to the compiz mailing list)

These kind of snide remarks is why I'm being rather rude in this mail.
You asked for it. If I may say so: Ignorant asshole.

> > Because really, that's what you're doing. Your source may be open, but
> > not your development method.
> >
>
> Here we go again, we have given up with the troll and fud
> accusations, now we are onto the 'you are closed' accusations.

Well, unless you want to give me ssh access to your machine, you are
indeed developing closed.

I don't care wether you release a git repo as a tar ball, that's just
childish and pathetic. I won't touch stuff like that, and it is not
likely that any other serious developer will either, unless they have
some very very special interest.

We have better things to do with our time than adopt to what suits
your personal feelings best. You choose to do things diffrent, so
people aren't going to help you. If you used the normal developing
practices, you'd suddenly get more help. Until you do, people aren't
going to drive to your house, ask you out for dinner and buy you
flowers to get your blessings to help you.

Also, did you seriously just accuse me of FUD? You've been spreading
fud since before I got involved with Beryl, flaming so badly you're
the only regular Compiz community memeber to get banned from the Beryl
forums for trolling and flaming.

Take a step back, look at your own actions, look at how it affects the
people you are supposed to WORK WITH.

And don't try this bullshit "oh my god you obviously don't know your
shit" speach with me, I'm tierd of your high-horse attitude. We all
fuck up, so do you. Start admitting it like a grown up. AND THAT
INCLUDES DISCUSSIONS LIKE THIS.

Any further replies to this thread will be ignored by me, since you
are incapable of ever admitting you were wrong on anything (no doubt
you will object to this, but hey, I don't care, you object to
everything(And that too)).

Have a nice day.

-- 
Regards,
Kristian